Wednesday, October 29, 2008

I am pro-life. I am against abortion. I am against war.

I'm going to apologize up front if this offends anybody.  The following is in response to conversations and comments I've heard lately, getting more heated as the election gets closer.

And I have to say, I am REALLY getting tired of evangelical republicans talking like Obama is the antichrist because he's a baby killer.  John McCain is NOT the savior of the world, and NEITHER is Obama.  They are both HUMAN, and probably either of them will be both good and bad as president.  And in the end, the ones who didn't vote for the winner will proudly say, "I didn't vote for him!"

Ok, here's my beef... Everybody keeps saying how Obama is a big, bad baby killer, how he's voted however many times in favor of abortion, and even "infantacide," as they're saying.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this, although I'm not sure people are taking the whole picture into consideration.  I am totally against abortion, I see it is murder, I think women have a right (or an obligation) to choose BEFORE they get pregnant (but that's another discussion).  However, I see the war in Iraq as being equally murderous, and here is why...   

How many people have been killed in Iraq?  I'm NOT talking about soilders (so don't argue that they chose to risk their lives, blah blah blah - I agree with that).  And I'm NOT talking about terrorists (arguably, they deserve to be vaporized).  I am talking about Joe the Iraqi and his wife, who were born and raised in Iraq, and now are raising their babies in Iraq, and just because they happen to live in the same country as terrorists, they are also now dead.  Did they choose it?  No.  Did they deserve it?  No.  Were they in any way involved in terrorism?  No.  But their lives were sacrificed for the sake of American's safety from terrorists.  Imagine if the tables were turned. 

Say there were some terrorists living in the United States of America (heaven forbid).  In response, the president of some other country sends his military over here and starts bombing the hell out of everywhere and anywhere (probably he has some kind of plan), and there you are caught in the crossfire.  YOU are not a terrorist, YOU didn't do anything wrong, and YOU believe that the terrorists from your country are bad people.  Every day, for years, people all around you are being killed, just because they happen to live here.  Maybe your mom, dad, spouse, children, neighbors, friends.  You live in a war torn country.  Every day you fear for your life.  But the president of that other country will not back down.  He keeps on and on and on. 

I'm sorry, but if I lived in Iraq, I just might think George Bush was a terrorist.  Who are we to say that American lives are more valuable than Iraqis?  Isn't that basically what we're saying?  We're fighting this war because if we don't, the terrorists will keep coming HERE and killing US, so instead, we're going over THERE and killing THEM (Iraqi people). 

John McCain's website says that "It would be a grave mistake to leave before Al Qaeda in Iraq is defeated."  Come on... is that really ever going to happen?  There will ALWAYS be terrorists.  If we plan to stay in Iraq until there are no more terrorists there, WE WILL NEVER LEAVE.  It may be necessary to fight terrorism.

But can't it be argued that sometimes abortion is necessary?  What if the mother's life is in danger?  (Honestly, if it were my choice, I would let my baby live rather than myself.)  But the argument on the pro-choice side is, "what if the mother's life is in danger?"  THEN it's definitely ok to kill the baby.  And on the pro-war side, "what if the American life is in danger?"  THEN it's definitely ok to kill the Iraqi.  Right?  WRONG. In BOTH cases, we are putting the value of one human life above another. 

My point is this... McCain and Obama are EQUALLY (in my opinion) supporting murder.  How can we stand up for either one of them?  It's coming from both sides: "Obama is a baby killer", "McCain is a war mongrel." 

I don't know if I can, in good conscience, vote for either of them.  I guess I'll have to start digging a little deeper into the other candidates who, unfortunately, get NO publicity from the press.

7 comments:

  1. dang jeannine. preach it! you're getting as feisty as me on your recent blog posts.

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  2. yeah, that's because I don't have a camera... I need another way to express myself. Actually, I shouldn't have been SO hard on evangelical republicans. I'm not talking about ALL of them, just certain ones - a handful of people on facebook, constantly making political comments about how doomed we are if Obama becomes president. I've also heard some propaganda on the radio about his stance on abortion, and it's just been bugging me.
    The truth is, I've really been prayerful about who I should vote for in this election, and the more I pray and think and research, the less I like either candidate.
    Is Christopher Walken still running? Probably not.

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  3. Hey Neen,

    Before I start with this comment - I really like you. And you are definitely entitled to your opinions. And you are my friend. Since you put your opinions out here, I am going to put mine out here for you to read.

    Some food for thought:

    http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
    has these statistics

    UNITED STATES
    Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million
    Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

    (this page also lists the number of abortions worldwide in one year - 42 million)

    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2007/
    has these statistics

    Year Civilians Killed
    2003 10,077 – 12,010
    2004 9,741 – 10,573
    2005 13,071 – 14,324
    2006 25,699 – 27,519
    2007 22,586 – 24,159

    The page for civilian deaths is a very antiwar page - they are going to have the highest possible count because of this - they want to prove a point.

    So, what kills more innocent people. Even the high year - the 27,519 of civilian deaths in the Iraq war - how do you even compare that to 1,370,000,000 abortions - 93% of which are purely selfish - not rape, incest, or danger to the life of the mother?

    http://www.longevitymeme.org/articles/viewarticle.cfm?page=1&article_id=9
    has these statistics

    The human death toll in the Year 2001 from all 227 nations on Earth was nearly 55 million people, of which about 52 million were not directly caused by human action, that is, not accidents, or suicides, or war. They were "natural" deaths.

    I could find a source for the next comment I am going to make, if you want, but more of our soldiers would have died of natural causes at home than have died in the war.

    Also, we are not just fighting the war for the safety of America - though wouldn't that justify it? - we are fighting for the safety of Joe Iraqi and his wife and their children. Under their former dictator many, many, many Joe Iraqis and Joe Kurds and their families were murdered. We are also fighting for the world. The more democratic countries there are in the world, the safer the world will be.

    Ben knows well the father of a guy who has done at least two tours of duty in Iraq during this war, and he has told MANY stories of the Iraqi people being VERY glad that the US forces are in Iraq. The media will never tell us these stories though . . .

    Here is an interesting website with statistics about World War II, just to put war casualties into perspective, I guess:
    http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

    And you say you are anti-war, but I would guess that you are anti-geonocide as well. How do we stop crazy people from killing untold numbers of people or from taking over the world (Rome, Persia, etc) without war?

    Do Ben and I agree 100% on everything with the Republican party? No. But we are 'conservative' because of our spiritual beliefs and this year we are forced to make a difficult decision. We didn't vote McCain in the primaries. We were delegate and alternate for the Republican party this year for our area, but didn't continue through to the state convention partly because we were disappointed at the state of the party. We aren't independant, though, and we aren't democrats, so where does that leave us? . . .

    It leaves us voting for the party who, as their platform, upholds the most of what we believe.

    And something about Obama - on an entirely different note - Obama would totally screw things up for little business partnerships like Ben and Tim - because the amount of money that their business brings in includes a TON of overhead - money that our families never see but that we get taxed on. The last tax year was, ... well, we handled it, but we PAID - and under Obama we would be taxed much more highly. We brought home less than 40,000 and we paid one seventh of that. If that were raised - even a bit - but Obama's not talking bits - Legacy Builders would probably fold.

    So, I guess I have some strong thoughts and feelings. And here they are. Do what you will with them. Read the statistics, see how they add up in your mind. Check out my sources. And keep praying about your choice. That's the BEST thing you can do. No matter what you decide you're my friend, and I REALLY like you!

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  4. i really like how you contrasted the two politicians and their issues on war/abortion. God only knows whats going to happen next tuesday and so on from there...being in Utah the vote will 99% go to McCain, so we are sort of just along for this ride. It should be an interesting one.

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  5. Elizabeth - I REALLY appreciate your well thought out response. Honestly, that's the best case I've heard from anyone. You have well thought out reasons for your vote, and that's something I haven't seen much of (from either side, to be honest).

    Like I said before, I keep hearing the same old junk from people (friends, as well as Christian media), saying the same old fluff that doesn't really mean anything to me. It mostly makes you feel belittled if you don't agree with them.

    I guess it just got to me, and I had to vent. My main point was to make a comparison between the two candidates (as Cassie said above), and to say that neither of them is going to save the world, and that people aren't ignorant or stupid for having their opinions, as they are often made out to be.

    So, thank you! I REALLY like you too. I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't vote for your choice, because you should - I was mostly trying to say that people shouldn't act all high and mighty with their opinions.

    And as a side note, I tried looking into other candidates who should be on the ballot, and I really couldn't find much information, so I'm having a hard time trying to make an informed decision.

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  6. thanks for having a discussion about this. i think we need to have real and realistic reasons for our vote.

    our president will never be as great or as terrible as people make things out to be - there is the whole house and senate who have a great deal of power as well. though this year, if we get a democratic president, the house and senate will probably be in that majority as well, so there wouldn't be as much tempering as there could be.

    i will never just spout off a bunch of fluff and crap. i want a reason for what i believe and for what my choice will be.

    i get really frustrated with people who can't or won't look at issues and FACTS and just belittle others for their choices.

    anyway - it's nice to be able to share my opinions with someone who doesn't think that i am being a fundamentalist closed-minded freak. you know what i'm talking about.

    and i cannot wait until tuesday is over and a LOT of this can just slowly die out of the media . . . won't it be nice . . . no more political adds . . . ahhhhh.

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  7. hi again.

    one more thing to add to this - please take the time to read this and think and pray about it. it's a bit long - but it is worth the read.

    http://randyalcorn.blogspot.com/2008/10/im-not-voting-for-man-im-voting-for.html

    hoping this helps.

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